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We've talked about this before,
but do give us a recap: Your upcoming movie Brimstone Saint - in a
few words, what's it about?
In
the Old West, a preacher-turned-gunslinger sets out to stop his childhood
friend from causing more havoc with her dark magic before it's too late.
Along the way the legendary African-American Marshal Bass Reeves,gets
roped into the craziness. There’s blood, magic and lots of western fun,
but it ultimately centers around two people who can’t resist each other
but can’t be together either. What were your sources of
inspiration when writing Brimstone Saint? I
had a conversation with Bill Oberst jr [Bill
Oberst jr interview - click here] about the fact that he had always
wanted to play a more positive version of a preacher. Since I’m a fan of
Robert E. Howard my mind drifted over time to his puritan hero Solomon
Kane. I imagined Bill in a wide-brimmed hat with a long coat hunting
witches, cryptids and ghouls. There’s a re-creation of an old west town
called Dogwood Pass a couple of hours from where I live that I have access
to, so my mind went to how I could place that character in the 1800s
and what that would look like. While
working on the story I was reminded of the famous Marshall Bass Reeves. It
seemed that pairing his more considered and laid back personality with the
super rigid and self-righteous version of this western style Kane would
make for a nice contrast. Lastly,
I’m intrigued by the New Orleans folk tales about Madame Lalaurie, the
mid-1800s socialite who tortured her slaves in unspeakable ways and
fled town when she was discovered, disappearing without a trace. I
wondered what a story would be like of her having done these things in
order to gain magical powers and curry favor with Lovecraftian Gods, and
what if Kane went after her as part of his monster hunting.
In the course of working on the script the nature of their relationship
and some of their background changed quite a bit, but those were a few of
the main inspirations for the initial story.
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Frederick Williams as Bass Reeves |
What
can you tell us about the actual shoot of Brimstone Saint? The
initial shoot took place during the first week of August 2017. It’s a
testament to my inexperience that I wrote a ninety-minute period film with
a large cast and horses and thought I could get it in the can within a
week. The cast and crew were all troopers the whole time, especially my
leads, Bill Oberst Jr., Frederick Williams and JoAnna Rowley. I felt
particularly bad for (writer/actor/director) Tim O’Hearn [Tim
O'Hearn interview - click here] who found
himself in uncomfortable effects makeup multiple days in a row before
getting in front of the camera. I’ve
wanted to make films ever since I was old enough to go to the theater on
my own. I shot super 8 movies during high school and at college, took
classes in music theory with the intent to write scores and became an
editor and motion graphics artist with an emphasis in animation. After
many years raising a family, I decided I wanted to get more involved in
independent film. So I became active on social media and started an indie
horror film blog. That’s where I met Bill Oberst jr and many other
people active in the horror scene. One day I came upon a post on Facebook
from Len Kabasinski [Len
Kabasinski interview - click here] looking for an editor. I responded and ended up being
involved in several of his productions over the next 2-3 years. At that
time Len had been making at least one film per year for a decade and I
learned a lot about making things work with limited time and resources. So
when I prepared for Brimstone Saint my expectations of how fast we could
move during production were pretty unrealistic. The thing I discovered was
that the kind of film I wanted to make could not be created that quickly,
especially at the expense of dialogue and the actor’s performances. In
one particular scene, I had written that several members of a posse would
talk on horseback during the night while guarding the witch and Bass
Reeves. That proved to be tremendously unsuccessful with our limited time
and resources. We shot three nights in a row without much usable footage.
Eventually, the horse bearing our lead actress reared up because of a
bright light it didn’t like and she almost fell to the ground.
Fortunately, Jo managed to slide right off the rear of the horse onto her
feet. After that I called it a night and slunk back to the saloon to my
computer so I could figure out a safer way to get the scene done. A few
minutes after that, Carl (The Coach) Bailey walked in and politely offered
the suggestion that we shoot that scene on foot, since nothing would
change except the setting. I felt foolish not recognising that myself, but
I think that shows how close I was to the story I saw in my head as
opposed to the reality of capturing it in real life.
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Bill Oberst jr as Kane |
Of
course we were unable to capture a lot of shots we needed so I scheduled a
pickup shoot a few months later over a weekend. That helped with some
essential scenes but I was still not happy with the state of some of the
more dialogue-heavy sections of the film. After a couple of years I was
able to get Bill, Fred and JoAnna out to redo their scenes. I had learned
a lot during that time and it went perfectly, with plenty of on-set
rehearsal time and a much more leisurely schedule. I could tell on the set
we were getting wonderful takes and performances that gave me chills. I
still remember Bill spontaneously telling me how much better we both were
now and how he wished we could reshoot the whole film. For the first time
I was feeling like I was getting the movie I really wanted. Brimstone
Saint has been in post-production for quite some time now - so what
can you tell us about the process of making your movie ready for the
screen, and how far along are you? And any idea when Brimstone Saint
might be ready for release?
After
editing fourteen out of twenty-nine scenes the demands of supporting a
family soon took over most of my time, especially now that I was working
full-time as a freelancer. It became obvious to me that I did not have the
bandwidth to pay the bills and edit the rest of the movie. After some
false starts I happened to meet a really talented shooter and editor named
Dakota Fredette while working on the TV pilot for Barnaby. He very quickly
finished the edit and became a true collaborator on the film. He’s still
helping me as we speak. We were able to show his edit (without final sound
or VFX) to the people at Dogwood Pass, and it was a resounding success.
I’m looking forward to their reactions when all the other elements are
completed.
Speaking
of VFX, when I started production I knew I could perform a lot of
composites and other types of effects myself, but I was not adept at
particle physics or simulations like fire, smoke or clouds. So I managed
to acquire the services of a small FX house through direct communications
and on the strength of their demo reel. We had communicated through email
for two months with the expectation of work beginning in the Fall. I knew
I wanted magic and other effects in Brimstone Saint, but I didn’t want
to write myself into a corner I couldn’t afford. I’ve been determined
to pay for this film out of my own pocket without investors or donations
from the start, so having access to their talents seemed like a godsend.
It also heavily informed my decision to keep the large effects shot count
in my schedule.
Right
after we finished that initial shoot I lost all contact with the FX house.
Their professional and personal social media sites went blank and they
would not respond to emails. I was able to connect with one of the members
through LinkedIn and he didn’t even know where the other artist was. It
was like he never existed.
So
there I was with about 140 shots to create and no one to do it. I set out
to find a replacement effects company, and over the intervening years I had
mixed success. Cloudland Studios was able to supply a great eye
augmentation for Marie in the saloon, and I was able to get a handful of
other good effects shots from another studio before their work became
unusable, almost as if the person responsible for the better shots had
left. When I received the effect that caused me to fire them my first
thought was that “I could have made that” which was not a good thing.
This caused me to start looking into how I could complete the more
difficult effects on my own.
JoAnna Rowley as Marie LaLaurie |
I’ve
used many 3D apps over the years for work purposes but I’ve had my eye
on Blender 3D since 2018 when they changed their interface and really
broke into the mainstream. What really caught my eye was the presentations
by FX professionals who were quietly integrating it into their company
workflows. In the past six months I’ve been able to dive into using
Blender at my main place of work, which has enabled me to reach a level of
proficiency that I can use to create all of the effects I previously could
not. Between the Adobe Production Suite, Blender and many other tools
I’m finally making steady progress on my own towards completing that
enormous VFX shot list. From what I know, you're
helped on the special and visual effects side of your film by Christopher
Cooksey - so what can you tell us about his contributions, your
collaboration with him, and how did you first get him even? I
was first introduced to Chris by Bill Oberst jr in November of 2018 when
Bill was doing his live one man show about Ray Bradbury [Bill
Oberst jr's Ray Bradbury Live (Forever) interview - click here]. Chris was helping
provide the visuals that were to be projected on a large screen behind
Bill during the show. I ended up creating a 3D representation of Green
Town from Something Wicked This Way Comes”along with the inside of
the library. Chris’s animations had a very nice handmade look to them
which stuck with me after I was done with that project. So in November of
2019 t occurred to me how good it would be to have Chris do the main titles for
Brimstone Saint in that style along with the dream sequences
involving the witch. He agreed to do it and has turned in some incredible
and unique imagery that I think will add significantly to the impact of
the film. We’ve
continued to help each other since then. I put together the end titles for
his award winning film The Quantum Terror, he’s continuing to
provide elements for Brimstone Saint’s effects, and when I’m done with
that I’ll be helping with some of the effects work for his next film Escape From Planet Omega 12. We also talk frequently about A.I. and
how it is leveling the playing field for indie filmmakers. Do
talk about your Brimstone Saint's Campfire Tales YouTube channel
for a bit, and what was the idea behind it?
My
youngest son and I have a YouTube channel called Brimstone Saint’s
Campfire Tales. We both feel compelled to write and tell stories, plus we
listen to alot of creepypastas. We were both getting frustrated with the
dearth of actually scary or just halfway decent creepy stories out there
that don’t end with “and that’s how I narrowly escaped the axe
murderer in my backseat.” Seriously, it seems like almost every horror
tale on YouTube wimps out in the end and turns into an after-school
special on how to stay away from strangers. Again, I’m far too busy to
spend time writing, so I reached out to Jeremy, who has been writing at a
professional level since he was in high school, and discussed putting
original stories on YouTube for people to listen to. Over the years Jeremy
has written eight original stories and one that we both collaborated on. I
find the voiceover talent, produce the visuals and edit the videos. The
original intro music is by Brian Lee who also wrote some of the music for
Brimstone Saint. We have another story coming out soon after this
interview is posted called Festering Beneath read by Bill Oberst jr.
One of the things we pride ourselves on is having actual people read the
stories.
https://www.youtube.com/@brimstonesaint1403/videos
You also
have a TV pilot called Barnaby out now - so in a few words, what's
that one about? In
1870, a young man stumbles upon an old west town filled with ghosts and
unnatural creatures ruled by a darkly powerful supernatural figure. The
stranger must use all of his strength and cunning to survive and possibly
escape before he is trapped there forever. What were your sources of inspiration
when writing Barnaby?
In
July of 2019 I began imagining how cool it would be to see a show in an old
west town completely inhabited by creatures of the night alongside
murderers and other horrors. A town-sized haunted house that would
resemble something like Gunsmoke combined with Dark Shadows.
In fact, I got the name “Barnaby” from the character of Barnabas
Collins (Dark Shadows).
The
more I thought about it the more I liked it, so I began fleshing out the
details in my mind. What would that actually look like? What kind of arc
could there be to carry the viewer through as many as five years of
episodes and make them feel satisfied by the climax? More importantly,
what would make me want to watch?
Do talk about Barnaby's
approach to the western genre!
For
me it’s comfort food. If I were to devote that much time and effort into
a production I would need it to keep my interest without falling into
gritty nihilism. I think there’s a time and a place for hopelessness in
storytelling but I don’t want to wallow in it. Life is too challenging
as it is. For me the town of Barnaby is both a prison and a refuge for the
fallen, which is something I think everyone can relate to. What do you do
when you come to terms with something horrible you’ve done but you
can’t make amends, you can’t even apologize? Ultimately, Barnaby is
about redemption and justice.
A few words about your
overall directorial approach to your story at hand?
My
favorite scripts are the ones that make me jealous about the dialogue. So
I’m always sweating the words that come out of people’s mouths. It’s
one of the things that hurt me during my original shoot for Brimstone
Saint due to the limited time. I love scenes with gripping or intriguing
dialogue punctuated by bursts of terror, awe or emotion. For me the script
is always the most important thing.
I want people to become engrossed in the character dynamics and hopefully
to become emotionally invested. I think the show Supernatural would
be the closest example. Every episode is filled with creepy situations and
monsters or demons, but the main reason you stay for fifteen seasons is to
ride with the two main characters as they go from town to town. You
can’t have one without the other.
What
can you tell us about Barnaby's cast, and why exactly these people? After
my experiences with Brimstone Saint I was much better prepared and
realistic in my expectations so my main cast was fairly small. They were
mostly made up of people who work at Dogwood Pass as western characters so
I knew they would be there and be willing to help. The “Killer” was
played by Matthew Grant who appeared in Brimstone Saint as the ghost outlaw in
the beginning. Stephen Brinson played the bartender and Louise Riggs was
the apparition of his mother who rocks outside of the saloon. There were
several more regulars who also helped with my earlier film including the
owners, Mike and Sharlene Montgomery. Another
Brimstone Saint alumni was Carl Bailey who flew up from Texas to play the
hard hitting bible thumping preacher. That part was written for him, as
well as Clay Depew for whom the storyteller “Clay” was obviously named
after. I saw Clay while I was on the set of another film and I saw him as
this character early on in the process. I was very relieved when he agreed
to play the part. Do
talk about the shoot as such, and the on-set atmosphere!
In
July of 2020 I was working as a contractor for a client who was creating a
couple of thirty minute shows for RFDTV and The Cowboy
Channel. In the
first week of that month he asked if I would like to take up the air date
on Halloween that he had for one of his shows, and use it to put on a pilot
for Barnaby. I was already delivering entire episodes of Special
Cowboy Moments and Wild Rides to him on a weekly basis, so slotting this
into my schedule as part of my job seemed justifiable. After ensuring that
I would retain all intellectual property rights, I agreed to pay all
production costs and deliver it as an episode to be “showcased” in
that slot. Over the next week I figured out the logistics of location,
casting and production, working backward from the channel delivery date.
Carl
Bailey |
I
discovered I would have between 2-3 days towards the end of August in
which to use the Dogwood Pass location due to another film already being
scheduled to shoot immediately after that. Also, the beginning of August
was when I had already scheduled my second pickup shoot for Brimstone
Saint. Fortunately, the script was already nailed down for that, and the
arrangements were made for the cast and crew, but it did make things more
hectic.
The
one thing that concerned me the most was the script, mainly because I did
not want to place an undue burden on the cast, especially the ones with a
lot of dialogue. Now, you might say “why not just keep the dialogue to a
minimum?” Well, you see I had learned from previous experience that the
more action you have the longer the shoot, because of all the setups. I
knew early on that there was no way to shoot a twenty-three minute drama
in two and a half days and have to keep moving equipment around. So it had
to be a limited series of setups in one or two locations.
It soon became apparent to me that this episode was taking on the style
and form of a traditional Twilight Zone episode. The kind of story
where some stranger finds himself in weird surroundings and ultimately
gets justice for his misdeeds. Of course the stranger would serve as an
avatar for the viewer and there’s a bit of a revelation in the end. One
cast member said they watched it with their daughter who got the twist,
which made me happy. Rick
Davis and Dakota Fredette had already provided camera work for me earlier
in the month, so that was an easy decision. I also was lucky to still have
access to Brian Lee for music and M.K. Smith for sound design. To aid Clay
with his several pages of dialogue we used a teleprompter on an iPad so he
could concentrate on his performance instead of memorization. Even so, he
did have most of it in his head by the time we started, which just
reinforced the rightness of casting him.
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Matthew
Grant |
On day one we shot all of the day exteriors, any angles inside the saloon
that included windows and some of the night exteriors. On day two we
covered the windows and shot on the other axis to hide that it was
daylight outside. I wanted to give Clay several hours to do his narration
so we could concentrate on performance without rushing. By evening we shot
the final night exteriors and wrapped. Dakota came back out after that to
get a pickup shot of the black horse due to a glitch in transferring some
of the files but that was all. We also managed to hide the fact that we
were shooting on the same location as Brimstone Saint by only using
previously hidden or unbuilt areas. I was very pleased that everyone had
comfortable breaks for breakfast, lunch and dinner and we were still able
to get good sleep and not feel rushed. Honestly, without everything I
learned from Brimstone Saint, it would have been a disaster.
I
went home and edited the episode while the sound designer and composer did
their work. I immediately sent the two effects plates that I couldn’t do
myself to a studio who turned them around in a few days. I completed the
rest of the effects and color-grading myself, collected and applied the
rest of the elements and delivered the finished episode on schedule.
The
$64-question of course, where can Barnaby be seen?
To
this day The Cowboy Channel frequently airs reruns of that pilot under the
Wild Rides Presents banner. I personally have a version without the
Wild Rides bookends and will make it available to the public when I decide
the best place for it.
If
the pilot's indeed picked up, what's in store for Barnaby - the
series? At
this time I do not see any interest on the part of The Cowboy Channel to
option the show. I currently have a pitch deck and an entire first episode
written, but I may have to pursue more unorthodox strategies. Anything you can tell us about audience and
critical reception of Barnaby? I
attempted to find out what the reaction was, if any, but the channel was
pretty opaque about their viewer numbers and I’ve never been able to get
any quantitative results. I have received unsolicited anecdotal feedback
that is quite positive, so there’s that. With both Barnaby
and Brimstone Saint being westerns, is this a favourite genre of
yours, and some of your genre favourites?
I’m
not so much attracted to the western film genre as I am to the actual
period in American history. The freedom of the American West during the
late 1800s symbolized boundless opportunity and rugged individualism,
which appeals to me. The simplicity makes it easier for me to imagine a
world where justice and evil are more direct and immediate. In spite of
its darkness and mystery, there’s a part of me that would like to live
in Barnaby. At least it’s uncomplicated and when you’re writing a
script you can concentrate on the character and plot without getting hung
up over things like cell phones and surveillance cameras, etc.
This
doesn’t mean I hate westerns. I could talk for days about my favorites
such as Silverado, The Cowboys, Jeremiah Johnson, The Magnificent
Seven, Unforgiven, Tombstone, True Grit (both) and
The Searchers, many of which
I’ve watched numerous times. I appreciate the spaghetti westerns more
than I enjoy them. However I will say that many of those Italian western
“B” movies have surprisingly good stories once you give them a chance. But
my favorite genre will always be horror, especially cosmic horror.
Any future
projects you'd like to share? I
have ideas for two other series, one in particular about an exorcist sent
to a small western town. I like the small community dynamic of the old west but in the present. Plus the exorcist is a bit of an outcast so
he’s already the underdog before he even starts. Another is more of an
anthology, kind of a Tales
from the Crypt in the old west. The latter
would be logistically and financially easier for many reasons. Your/your movies' website,
social media, whatever else?
You can stay up to date by following us on Facebook, Twitter or signing up for
the newsletter on the official website:
https://www.facebook.com/brimstonesaint/
https://twitter.com/BrimstoneSaint
www.brimstonesaint.com
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Anything else you're dying
to mention and I have merely forgotten to ask?
I couldn’t produce any of these movies or shows without Mike and Sharlene
Montgomery. I can truly say that they and the people who work at Dogwood
Pass are the living embodiment of all the best traits of a small western
community. I would encourage people to check them out on their website and
in their interview and if possible make a trip out to see the incredible
one-of-a-kind world they have built in South East Ohio.
Website:
https://josephbuchanan05.wixsite.com/dogwoodpass
The story of Dogwood Pass: https://vimeo.com/722046015
Thanks
for the interview!
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