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Your new movie The
Headmistress - in a few words, what is it about?
CHRIS: In The
Headmistress, a debt-ridden teacher inherits an abandoned lakefront
inn, and she and a group of potential buyers visit the property, where
they discover a sinister secret and a malignant supernatural presence
determined to keep them there forever. That’s basically the log line.
More broadly, I think of it as a ghost story about a desperate young woman
who’s forced to come to grips with and pay for her family’s
long-hidden sins.
What
were your sources of inspiration when writing The
Headmistress? JAY:
The main inspiration for the concept for our film was the nunnery. We were
actually pretty far along into pre-production on another film when the
opportunity to use the location presented itself. We were working with our
executive producers – JJ Alaily, Chad Brown, and Alex Evans – on a
film set in a brewpub when Alex started blowing up my phone with photos of
a nunnery that JJ just purchased. JJ, Alex, and Chad encouraged us to look
at the location and consider it for a film. Chris and I made the 45-minute
drive from Madison, WI to the location in Oconomowoc, WI and we fell in
love with it. The place was perfect. The only catch was that we had about
six months to come up with a concept, script, crew and cast as the
structure was scheduled to be demolished. So, Chris, Glenn (Glenn Chung,
our partner in our film production company, Three
Tortured Minds) and I
pitched each other on possible creative directions we could consider for
the film. We knew the nunnery, the building, had to be a character in our
movie, so we looked a bit at The
Shining and House
on Haunted Hill for
some inspiration.
As
for the actual writing of the script, I’ll leave that to Chris as he was
tasked with taking our concept and turning it into a script. I will note,
however, that I think he did an amazing job. Then again, I’m a huge fan
of Chris’s writing. Here’s a tip - if you come across anything written
by him, don’t pass it up.
CHRIS:
Jay covered so much of it, but I’d just add that in our
non-movie-making life, Jay and Glenn and I have worked for years doing
consulting in Indian Country, and we’ve become very familiar with the
United States’ shameful history of these American Indian Boarding
Schools. These were boarding schools set up by Christian missionaries to
basically assimilate Native children into European culture, and there’s
a really terrible history of abuse, discovery of mass graves, and all
sorts of awful things. Our movie is not about an Indian boarding school
per se, but once we had this great location to build around, that’s
where the seed of our idea came from: Vulnerable children at the total
mercy of these malignant strangers… and then, years later, the question
of our responsibility for the abuse doled out by our forebears.
Do talk about The
Headmistress's approach to horror? And is horror a genre
especially dear to you?
CHRIS:
First and foremost, yes! The horror genre is incredibly dear to me,
personally. Growing up in the 1970’s and ‘80’s, I was your classic
Monster Kid. The old, old horror-comedies—the
Abbott
and Costello Meet … horror-comedies, in particular—were my gateway
drug, leading me to the old Universal classics and the
Hammer horror flix
and all those old monster movies. In fact, the Monster Café at Universal
Studios is still one of my favorite places on earth! And then finally I
graduated to movies like Carpenter’s original Halloween and the slasher
films of the late-‘70s and ‘80s… and by then I was completely
hooked. I still love, love, love those super-old classics, though, and
collect classic horror memorabilia to this day.
On
the first question, Jay and I have very similar sensibilities as far as
how we like to go about constructing horror, and our tendency is to focus
on emphasizing mood, building suspense, and creating an overall sense of
dread. We’re not so much about shock value and gore, though we do like
our jump scares! But our movies are never going to feature over-the-top
brutality or gore or the misogynistic violence that I think we see too
often in indie horror. Mood. Theme. Suspense. That’s how we get at the
horror of The
Headmistress.
JAY:
Yes, The
Headmistress definitely focuses heavily on suspense, the
anticipation of horror, and the aftermath of an encounter – not gore. As
I mentioned earlier, the location is a character in the film, so just
exploring the space gives off a creepy, somewhat horrific, vibe.
As
for the genre of horror being dear to us, our first feature, The
Nursery,
was a horror film, and we also have a podcast called Indie Horror Rising
that focuses on indie horror filmmakers, filmmaking, and indie horror
films… so I think it’s safe to say that we’re a bit taken with the
genre.
What can you tell us about your
overall directorial approach to your story at hand?
JAY:
Chris and I spent a lot of time at the nunnery prior to the shoot; as
such, we were pretty well set with our approach and vision by the time
production started. And once the camera started to roll, working together
on the direction for the film came naturally to us. Chris and I have known
each other for about thirty years, worked together for twenty-five-plus
years, are best friends, and we simply share a brain. With that background
and history together, I was never concerned that we’d have conflicting
opinions that couldn’t be overcome when working with the cast and crew
on The
Headmistress.
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CHRIS:
We’re very proud of what we did with The
Headmistress and feel that it
is a significantly more cinematic film than our first movie, The
Nursery.
Even though we are substantially at one location throughout most of the
movie, there is certainly more scope and scale to The
Headmistress. Our
camera is much more mobile. We use wider shots to more interesting effect.
And our score, by talented composer and musician Tasos Eliopoulos, is
quite grand and engaging. More specifically to your question, though,
I’d say that our approach to the story was to focus first on the
characters—engage with them, get to know them, get to understand who
they are and what challenges they’re facing—and then start to move
them around the proverbial chessboard to create tension and horror.
In
addition, I’d add that Jay was very savvy in his approach—not as
director, per se, but in his role as our editor—to coloring the film and
manipulating some of the darks and pools off light that help express what
our characters are going through. He worked very, very hard in
post-production to give the film a very specific look that not only
creates tension and dread, but also expresses the creeping dread that
eventually overwhelms not just Mara but the rest of the characters, as
well.
You've
directed The Headmistress
with one another - so what was that collaboration like?
CHRIS:
As Jay mentioned, he and I have been best buddies for nearly three decades
now, and we’ve been working together for just as long. I’d say that we
share a brain, but he already beat me to it! So there you go. As a result,
we tend to know exactly what the other one is thinking and can anticipate
each other’s reactions and responses most of the time. So, when shooting
a scene, for example, if an actor interprets a line in a particular way,
not only do we both know almost immediately what the other one thinks
about it, nine times out of ten our reaction is exactly the same. As a
result, there is very little conflict or confusion when we’re directing
a project together. Between The
Headmistress and The Nursery, I can
probably count on one hand the number of times we’ve had a significant
disagreement on a creative choice, and when it does happen, we both
respect each other’s visions and opinions enough to work through it
collaboratively.
JAY:
Chris and I have known each other since undergraduate school, have worked
on countless video and commercial projects at our media firm for more than
twenty-five years, and are best buddies… so it was truly an awful
collaboration, and I hated every moment. Just kidding, directing the film
together was a wonderful collaboration, and we thoroughly enjoyed it. And
even though I’m the editor for the film, we collaborated one hundred
percent on that as well.
The
Headmistress isn't the first time you've been working together -
so do talk about your previous collaborations, and how did the two of you
first meet even?
JAY:
Chris and I met in college. We were both in the Radio/TV/Film program at
the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. After graduating, we both left
Wisconsin for graduate school: Chris went to Emmerson College in Boston,
MA, and I headed to Miami University in Oxford, OH. With our degrees in
hand, we both returned to Madison, Wisconsin, where we worked together on
a few political projects. After a short time, Chris became a partner in Visuality, a media firm that I opened with Glenn Chung (Glenn is the third
tortured mind in our film production company, Three
Tortured Minds). That
was about twenty-five years ago, and we’ve worked on numerous media
campaigns together for clients all across the country.
CHRIS:
Jay and I didn’t actually know each other particularly well in college,
though we were in the same program, as Jay said. Our paths crossed
occasionally, but I wouldn’t say we were friends. In fact, my first real
memory of Jay was when my college girlfriend and I went to a local supper
club to celebrate something or other, and Jay was our waiter! I remember
thinking, “Hey,
I know that guy!” And I’m sure he was thinking, “I can’t believe I
have to wait on this douche nozzle from my film class!” When we both
landed in Madison, I think that someone told Jay he should look me up; so
he gave me a call, we had lunch, and almost immediately we were besties.
What can you tell us about your
production company Three
Tortured Minds, and the philosophy behind it?
CHRIS:
As we’ve referenced a couple of times, Three
Tortured Minds is a
collaboration between Jay, Glenn Chung, and me. As I mentioned, the three
of us have been in business together through our media firm, Visuality,
for many, many years, and over the course of those years we talked over
and over about making a feature film… with even a few fits and starts
along the way. Then, in 2016, with our business changing a bit, we decided
that it was time to just go for it and see if it was something that we
could actually do! So, we banged out a concept together, and once we had a
concept, we worked on a script. Once we had a script, we started thinking
about a budget. Then casting. And on and on. And I think that every step
along the way, our attitude was: Let’s see if we can get over this next
hurdle, and if we can, let’s just keep going as far as we can. And then
one day we had a cast in place, a crew in place, locations… and it was,
like, hey, we’re gonna make this movie! And off we went.
JAY:
I’ll add that when we first started thinking about working on a feature
film, we decided that it’d be best for us to create a new entity and not
use our existing media firm for that purpose. Our media firm, Visuality,
has a distinct brand and client base – we wanted to keep that separate
and let Three
Tortured Minds focus specifically on film and related work.
Back
to The Headmistress
- what can you tell us about the movie's cast, and why exactly these
people?
JAY:
Very happy you asked about our cast. We’re so thrilled with all of them
and their amazing performances in The
Headmistress. We held in-person
casting sessions in Milwaukee and Madison and we also used online casting
services to expand our reach. Chris and I wanted to find folks who could
take a character and make it their own, accept direction and feedback from
us, and get along well with each other, since we knew that we’d be living
with them at the nunnery all through production. The folks you see on
screen met those criteria and gave us much more. We were so impressed with
all of the cast for showing up on day one ready to record. They all put a
terrific amount of time into developing their characters, and that
absolutely comes through in their performances and how they interact with
each other on screen.
CHRIS:
In case you couldn’t tell from Jay’s response, we are extremely proud
of our cast for this film. I’d really hate to focus on any one
individual over another, because our entire cast gave tremendous
performances… even though some—including Katie Bellantone [Katherine
Bellantone interview - click here], our lead—
had never worked on a feature film before! Clearly, the cast is loaded
with talent, and so we were very lucky to find them, but—as Jay
said—we also were very careful to find people who we could
work with, direct, and ultimately live with! Jay and I ended up living at
our primary location, that abandoned nunnery in Oconomowoc, Wisconsin,
with the majority of the cast for just under two weeks. Ultimately, I
think that experience really benefited the film, because our cast really
bonded and became close, and you can see and feel some of that intimacy in
the performances!
You of course also have to talk about your main
location for a bit, and what was it like filming there? And how did you
find it even? CHRIS:
Well, as we touched on earlier, the journey of The
Headmistress really
began when we were offered access to this recently decommissioned nunnery
called Villa St. Joseph, which was perched on the edge of a small lake in
the woods of South-Central Wisconsin. Jay told that story earlier,
but it’s worth repeating that we only had a short six-month window
before the nunnery was to be demolished, and this phenomenal location
ultimately became the foundation on which we built the story, the
characters, and atmosphere of the film. It became important to us right
from the beginning that the exotic location itself become a character in
the story. From its seeming isolation in the middle of nowhere, its
patchwork of out-of-time wallpaper and carpeting, its closets
that locked from the inside, and the dingy cellar and legitimately
terrifying attic: we wanted the location itself to become as much of a
villain as the sinister inn of The
Shining, the decommissioned asylum of House
on Haunted Hill, or Psycho’s
Bate's Motel. Where our first film, The
Nursery, was a cinematic throwback to the suburban horrors of the
1970’s and 1980’s—like Carpenter’s Halloween
and Coscarelli’s Phantasm—we wanted The
Headmistress to exploit the contrast between the
isolated, century-old feel of our location and the film’s more
modern sensibilities and character conflicts.
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JAY:
You know, if JJ Alaily, one of our executive producers, wouldn’t have
purchased the nunnery, and if Alex Evans and Chad Brown, our two other
executive producers, wouldn’t have encouraged us to seriously consider
creating something based on the location, The
Headmistress would not have
been made. It’s simply the perfect setting for a horror film: bizarre
wallpaper and interior design; long, meandering hallways; bedrooms that
connect in strange ways; creepy basement areas with dungeon-like
spaces… perfect. That said, the nunnery is located on an incredible plot
of land that is situated on a gorgeous lake. The cast and crew enjoyed the
beautiful setting and all the amenities the location had to offer.
A few words about the shoot as such, and
the on-set atmosphere?
JAY:
While we were shooting a dark horror film in a creepy setting, I think the
cast and crew will tell you that the on-set atmosphere was very fun. Our
executive producers took folks out for boat rides on the lake; we didn’t
overwork anyone—besides ourselves—and we enjoyed some amazing
meals… thanks in large part to Chris for finding food/restaurant sponsors
and coordinating homemade meals from his family. We were so pleased that
everyone got along so well, especially because Chris and I lived at the
nunnery with the cast during production.
CHRIS:
In a lot of ways, the shoot felt a bit like summer camp! We were all
living together at this cool, somewhat isolated location, and so there was
a lot of really terrific bonding that went on. It was a lot of fun all
around. But, like any film shoot—and especially a micro-budget indie
shoot—there was a lot of work all around, as well! When you’re
shooting an indie flick like ours, everyone has to wear a lot of hats, and
so there’s not a whole lot of time for rest or relaxation. Typically, my
morning would start around 5:00 a.m., literally getting up to make coffee
for the cast and crew and to start looking over the plan for the day. Jay
and I would generally meet for an hour or so in the morning just to talk
through any tricky parts of the schedule or the day, and then usually by
8:00 or 9:00 we were off and running. Depending on the day, our shooting
day would end around 10:00 p.m. or so, at which time Jay and I would meet
again to talk over the next day. And then I’d typically try to be in my
room around 11:00 p.m. or so to try like hell to wind down and get into a
state where I could rest my brain enough to sleep and try to recharge for
the next day. It was exhausting but truly invigorating!
Anything you can tell us about
audience and critical reception of The
Headmistress?
JAY:
So far, The
Headmistress has been very well received. However, we’re
very clear-eyed about reviews, feedback, and the like. This is another
area where Chris and I have the same viewpoint, so I’ll let him speak
for the both of us…
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CHRIS:
Well, I think that it’s hard for filmmakers like us—especially
lower-budget horror, but really any kind of filmmaker—to judge reactions
to your film sometimes, because you really only have two ways to see it: From actually audiences at in-person screenings, and then what you see
online. Now, we’ve been very lucky so far in that most of what we’ve
seen from online critics and audience ratings (stuff like IMDb or Rotten
Tomatoes) has been extremely positive! We have really strong audience
ratings, and our reviews have been much, much more positive than negative.
However, I think it’s dangerous to get too caught up in what you see
online, because anyone can post anything online, and there are a lot of
trolls out there! What’s been really encouraging, though, is what
we’ve seen from our audiences, both in terms of film festival
performance and our limited theatrical run. We won the Audience Award for
Best Horror Feature at the Milwaukee Twisted Dreams Film Festival last
fall, and we’ve sold out multiple commercial theatrical screenings of
the movie, as well… so that’s been very cool. And when Jay and I have
been able to talk to audiences after theatrical screenings, the response
has been incredibly positive!
Any future projects you'd like to
share?
JAY:
Not quite yet, but folks can learn more about The
Headmistress, and other
indie horror films, via our podcast, Indie Horror Rising, which you can
find wherever you get your podcasts.
CHRIS:
Yes, if folks are interested in learning more about The
Headmistress,
we’d definitely encourage them to check out Indie Horror Rising.
Normally, Jay and I talk to other filmmakers about their projects or focus
on a classic film here and there. But we also have a series
of what we call IHR Film School episodes in which we focus on the
making and marketing of The
Headmistress. We’ve got about a dozen and a
half episodes dedicated to all the different aspects of the making and
marketing of The
Headmistress: pre-production, scripting, post-production,
business & finance, VFX, etc. Especially for filmmakers, these
episodes are a really fascinating inside look at the process of making and
marketing an indie horror feature.
Your/your movie's website, social media, whatever
else?
https://theheadmistressmovie.com/
https://www.indicanpictures.com/new-releases/the-headmistress
https://www.facebook.com/TheHeadmistressMovie/
https://www.facebook.com/ThreeTorturedMinds/
https://twitter.com/3TorturedMinds
https://threetorturedminds.wordpress.com/
https://www.facebook.com/ChristopherAMicklos
https://twitter.com/chrismicklos
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Anything
else you're dying to mention and I have
merely forgotten to ask?
JAY:
Just a big thank you for this interview and for shining a light on The
Headmistress. Much appreciated.
CHRIS:
Definitely. We are so appreciative that there are sites like yours that
support indie horror films like ours and are so essential for us to reach
our audience!
Thanks for the interview!
CHRIS:
Thank you!
JAY:
Thanks!
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